69 replies to this topic

[Richard]

Fr. Mike, on Mar 19 2006, 12:18 PM, said:

It sounds by the tone of some posts that some feel the government is their enemy when it comes to taxation and spending priorities.

I keep reading -- "when the government does this" or "when the government does that" or "when the government". Who is this government character you are angry at?

I suggested a way to handle moving social spending from the bloated bureaucratic arena back into the private sector. Would you suggest that the current system simply be shut off like one would turn off the kitchen faucet?

Should people continue to sin because they become dependent on that sin for their livelihood, or should the repent and sin no more?

Will you repent Fr. Mike from the sin of theft?

[Fr. Mike]

Should people continue to sin because they become dependent on that sin for their livelihood, or should the repent and sin no more?

Will you repent Fr. Mike from the sin of theft?

I have no idea what theft you are referring to. I don't steal but if i did I most certainly would repent.

You might want to read your Webster dictionary. Theft is defined as taking sombodies property without their consent.

I assume you are a citizen and have agreed--consented-- to obey the laws of this country. One of those laws is paying taxes on your earned income. How the taxes are used is determined by your elected officials. Those receiving services from those taxes have not stolen your money. You freely are participating in this system.

If you don't want to go along with this system--then don't. That is your free will, but in the meantime-- to accuse others of taking unlawfully what is yours is absurd.

Those taking social benefits illegally should stop and yes--repent this sin. Those taking the benefits legally have not commited a sin. I'm sorry you feel abused by the government or those in need.

Edited by Fr. Mike, 19 March 2006 - 04:28 PM.

[Jim Miller]

Quote

Theft is defined as taking sombodies property without their consent.

BINGO!

[Jim Miller]

My replies were directed more toward Social Security. I do not mind taxation that is used for national security and like items, but do oppose taxation to subsidize the lazy and unwilling.

Edited by Jim Miller, 19 March 2006 - 05:46 PM.

[Jack of 32]

I can't believe that I am agreeing with you CC, but I am sure the General would not.

I paid into SS for a good number of years and still haven't received back, plus interest, what I paid in. And I doubt that I will see that day either.

I am also not "lazy and unwilling", well now that I am retired I may have to rethink that statement...

[Jim Miller]

Apparently I have not been real clear here. I apologize for that. I separate Social Security from general taxation. Social Security taxes are deducted from workers (without my permission I might add). General taxation, ie federal income taxes are used to subsidize the lazy and unwilling with far too many social programs.

[Richard]

Fr. Mike, on Mar 19 2006, 04:27 PM, said:

Should people continue to sin because they become dependent on that sin for their livelihood, or should the repent and sin no more?

Will you repent Fr. Mike from the sin of theft?

I have no idea what theft you are referring to. I don't steal but if i did I most certainly would repent.

You might want to read your Webster dictionary. Theft is defined as taking sombodies property without their consent.

I assume you are a citizen and have agreed--consented-- to obey the laws of this country. One of those laws is paying taxes on your earned income. How the taxes are used is determined by your elected officials. Those receiving services from those taxes have not stolen your money. You freely are participating in this system.

If you don't want to go along with this system--then don't. That is your free will, but in the meantime-- to accuse others of taking unlawfully what is yours is absurd.

Those taking social benefits illegally should stop and yes--repent this sin. Those taking the benefits legally have not commited a sin. I'm sorry you feel abused by the government or those in need.

I did not ever say that theft by taxation was illegal, only that it is a sin and as you continually advocate for more and more theft by taxation to support social welfare programs, you are also sinful.

Nor is all taxation theft as I have previously stated as a government must be funded to perform it proper functions but every from of government has been corrupted such that the powers of government are used to the financial benefit that class of people who possess political power. In the case of democratic government, that is the lower economic classes as the poor are far more numerous then the affluent. In other forms of government, it is often the affluent classes that take for themselves from the public treasury, but in either case, the act of using the powers of government to forcible take the property of others such that those holding power benefit financially from that taking is wrong, it is using the government to steal.

Please consider, if the current situation was reversed and the federal government taxed the poor heavily while not taxing the affluent at all and then created social welfare programs that only the affluent would benefit from at the expense of the poor, would this not be theft?

The poor are using the government to steal from their neighbors and you are applauding their sin. The fact that the poor, the most numerous class, possess the political power to force the government to redistribute wealth does not make their actions righteous.

Lock's social contract does not include any provision where those wielding the powers of the government should enrich themselves at the public expense.

Fr. Mike, will you not repent of the sin of theft?

Best Regards,
Richard